As more women enter scientific fields, especially biology, much discussion has risen around what it means to be a woman in science in today’s World. For collegiate women in STEM fields, the realties that this can mean is sometimes very discouraging or even outraging.
However, many say that the discourse around the disadvantages present for women on the sciences is invalid – women are seeing and complaining about things that are not, in fact, happening or accurate.
To get to the bottom of this, I talked to Dr. Addis, a biology at professor at Gonzaga University. Dr. Addis received her PhD from the University of Washington in 2009 and had much to say about the lives of women in science, especially of those in biology.
What would you say is what biologists study? A general definition.
We study life.
Why did you enter the field? What made you interested in biology?
I think it has something to do with life. When I was in college, I really wanted to be a geology major – that’s one of the reasons I went to the college that I went to, because I wanted to study geology. But then, when I was on field trips for our labs (looking at rocks) I actually kept thinking that the living things were way more interesting than the rocks and so I thought maybe I should do biology. But I’ve always liked science. I think part of it is that I come from a “scienc-y” family and so it has sort of always come easily to me and is a way of thinking that makes sense to me.
So your parents are scientists?
Yes.
In biology?
Yes.
So who would you say are your role models?
I guess there are different facets. In terms of being a scientist, both of my post doc advisors were role models. They are both women, very intelligent, and they have very different personalities. With one of them, I am so impressed with her ability to ask anything. What I mean by that is – I think all students, but women in particular, are afflicted with a fear of asking a dumb question or a question they think everyone already knows the answer to. Often women will preface their question with something like, “Oh, this might be a silly question,” kind of apologetic. But she would just ask, “What’s this figure showing?” or “Why are you doing this?” She chose both efficiency and fearlessness. Part of it was just that she was really smart and so she was very confident. My other advisor was a role model for a different reason. She is excellent at seeing big picture things and communicating ideas. I think what both of them are weaker in is maintaining work-life balance. I think I don’t really have a good role model for that.
Do you think that has to do with being a woman in a field that is very demanding so balancing family and work can be very difficult?
Yes. When I was doing my PhD, the people that seemed the have the best work-life balance were the older men who (it was a different generation) had wives who either didn’t work or worked very little and took care of the house, took care of the kids, did all of that stuff. So, they didn’t have to worry about that at all. Now, the women who seem to have the best work-life balance actually tend to have husbands who are stay-at-home dads. Life is a lot, especially when you have kids, so if someone can be devoted to taking care of one half of your life – that makes everyone’s life a lot better.
What dynamics have you noticed between male and female biologists when they’re working together?
Men tend to be, or at least present themselves as being, more confident. They will make assertions in the form of being an assertion rather than saying something like, “Well maybe it’s this.” So women again, sort of the apologetic attitude – something that men tend not to do. I think it is a combination for men of being confident and that they express themselves differently. I see this with people of all ages. Where there is a different relationship is when older male biologists, often older white male biologists, talk down at you or treat you like a child. I think they’re more likely to do that to women but I think they’ll do it to everyone.
Do you have any examples of times throughout your career when you felt either implicit or overt bias?
Yes, but I think it’s all implicit. I’ve never had anyone say to me, “You can’t do that because you’re a woman.” But, often it is that if I ask for something of a man, I know they would respond differently if I was a man. So that’s one thing that’s really frustrating. But also, men making comments about my appearance, nothing sexual, but things that I don’t think they would say to other men. Like why does it matter if there’s a tie on my sweater? I’m not going to trip over it, I’m not five years old and I’m not four feet tall – you don’t need to talk down to me like I can’t dress myself.
You said sometimes you feel they would respond differently if you were a man when you ask for something. What do you mean by that?
I feel they are more dismissive, just saying that they won’t do what I asked. But I feel that if I was a man they would perceive it as maybe a good point.
Do you notice anything between female biologists that becomes skewed because of the fact that you are in a male dominated field?
Well that’s one of the interesting things about biology. Biology is not really male dominated.
That’s true, but the farther up you go in the field, the more men you see.
That is very true.
So have you noticed in those higher-up areas whether or not dynamics between women become more difficult to navigate?
I haven’t noticed it between women. Sometimes there are personality things but that can happen with males and females. I think it is also that most of the professors that I interact with are at Gonzaga and we don’t have a very competitive atmosphere here. But, at other institutions that are very research focused, I know the atmosphere is much more competitive. When I was a lab tech at MIT before I started my PhD, there was a woman who, although I never explicitly heard her say this, it was a known fact that if you were a graduate student or a post-doc in her lab and you got pregnant you would be dismissed because your work efficiency would decrease.
That’s illegal.
Well right but it’s not explicit. As long as she never actually says that it is very hard to prove. With some, especially older generation women, there are basically two approaches. There is the “I had to go through this really hard stuff because I was one of the few women in the field so you have to go through this really hard stuff too.” Or there are women who want to make the circumstances more equitable for everyone and so they want to make sure that, for example, if you are a post-doc you still get maternity leave.
So ladies, which woman do you want to be?