Kate Orchard is one of the coolest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. Kate was my manager throughout my second work term at Dash Hudson and I feel extremely lucky to have gotten the opportunity to learn from her and work alongside her for the past 8 months. When I first joined the Dash Hudson team, I was extremely nervous, being surrounded by so many incredibly intelligent women. Very quickly I was in awe of Kate and her many talents – her attention to detail, being able to share ideas and solutions on the spot, answering what felt like every question under the sun and always asking very thoughtful questions. Kate always prioritized my learning and experience, asking me what I’m wanting to do more of and adding me to a variety of projects while also offering me constructive criticism on the work that I do.
I continue to learn so much from Kate, not only about work related insights but also, about life. I was extremely excited to have the opportunity to sit down with Kate for this feature piece and hear about her career experiences so far, as well as the advice that she has for others just beginning to build their careers.
I started off our chat with what I thought was an easy question: What did you always want to be growing up?
“I actually thought this was the hardest question on the list because I think when I was younger, I just kind of bounced around between idea and idea, and I was like, I’ll figure it out later. Right? Because it just seems so abstract to me. And even when I was trying to choose a post secondary, I was like, I have no idea what I want to do forever. I actually was in between two completely different realms, which was esthetics and broadcasting. And I actually put a deposit down for the esthetics school… but then at the last minute, I was like I’m actually going to go to broadcasting school because I feel like that is what I want to do.
I think I always just wanted to do something creative, and I actually wanted to do something with my hands. And that’s kind of the two different things that I kind of knew that I really liked doing…, owning a project, but in such an abstract way… and then other than that, it was kind of like a mystery. I’ll take it day by day and see what I like and then just go from there.”
Hearing her response was really interesting because while at the time she didn’t know that she would end up in product marketing, it aligns really well with the type of role she always wanted to be in. I also very quickly admired Kate’s ability to just go with the flow and follow what she wanted to do.
“I don’t think I ever thought that I was going to be in product marketing at a software company. And that actually just happened to be like a happy mistake or happy accident because I kind of came into it and I had no idea what it was even about before I came here. But it also makes a lot of sense based on who I am and the things that I thought I wanted to do. It’s just kind of nice that I stumbled into it in my 30s.”
If I had to describe Kate’s job in one word I think I would have to pick complex. Listening to Kate speak about what she loves and finds challenging about her role was really interesting because when she spoke about the challenges, it wasn’t necessarily about the work itself but how she functions in the workplace:.
“I think the fact that it’s not the same day in and day out is what kind of keeps it interesting for me because I love tackling new challenges… I think that’s what I love about this and it’s obviously very different from school, but that’s all I have to compare it to and it’s nice to know that every single day there might be something new and spontaneous that I get to do or if it’s a mix of structure, but also the spontaneous… it’s very different, which is just so fun.
I think one of the biggest challenges is not saying yes to everything because I’m definitely like a natural people pleaser and I want to help everybody. But that can really lead you down a road of doing too many one off ad hoc projects that aren’t going to get reused. So being able to take a step back and not say yes to everything, but really understand what people are asking for. Sometimes it is a one off and sometimes it is necessary, but a lot of the times what people are asking for is something larger. So is there a way to optimize and create something a little bit better? I think it’s more of an opportunity to take a step back and then evaluate and then also protect some of your time and energy where you can.”
As someone who always wants to prove myself and take on whatever someone is asking of me, it can get really overwhelming. It is also really hard to say no to people, even when you know that passing on something may be what is best. Hearing Kate speak about her people pleasing tendencies and trying to work past it was incredibly comforting and I appreciated her advice about protecting your time and energy when you need to. There is a lot of strength in that.
At Dash Hudson, the marketing team is predominantly women, which is so different from any of the workplaces I had previously been in. It is something about the company that I really appreciate and I do think it played a role in how comfortable I soon became. I was curious to hear about Kate’s experiences and wondered if she has faced any kind of discrimination in the workplace being a woman.
“You kind of have to learn to speak in a different way. I’ve always been a fairly soft spoken person and very introverted and very socially anxious. And people get really surprised when I say that because I don’t necessarily come off that way. But I’ve had to learn how to speak to certain leaders in a way that they’ll hear and respect. If you want to come off as nicer or more assertive, you change your voice a little bit. And I’ve actually kind of realized I’m like, ‘Oh, I’ve learned how to do that to certain leaders who wouldn’t take me as seriously, to come off as more confident and more believable, which is crazy, but it’s true.’”
Listening to Kate speak about having to shift her tone of voice and assertiveness definitely reminded me of my own personal experiences and I felt a sort of comfort but also frustration in hearing her say that she too has had to change the way she speaks to simply be heard. We continued on, discussing this almost false embodiment of confidence among women, and doubting our abilities.
“Men will often apply for jobs that they don’t feel like they even meet most of the criteria. And women are like, if I don’t meet 100% of the criteria, I’m not applying because they’re going to disqualify me.. so there’s a certain level of internalized dismissal as well. I also found out in a previous job, too, in a mostly women-based department, there were very few men, and the men that were working there were getting paid more like $7,000 more than me. And we were like, we’re actually equal in terms of education, experience with the company, experience in general.”
Kate and I used the word “wild” a ton in our conversation because that is truly what it is. Wild that these disparities still exist and are common knowledge, yet huge progress still needs to be made. Hearing Kate’s first hand experience was shocking to listen to and I couldn’t believe some of her stories. She has worked really hard to get to where she is and I was so curious as to what kind of mindset she has maintained throughout her journey.
Kate has always celebrated my wins, no matter how big or small they are, and this has really encouraged me to learn and continue to do my best. When speaking with Kate about her proudest career-centered moments, her answer was very true to who she is.
“I feel like this is such a self indulgent statement, but I always really celebrate as much as I can, where I can. Every new job has felt like a bit of a milestone. And even when I was like, ‘Oh, I don’t know if I really love this job, it was still somewhere. It was still like a step towards where I thought I was going anyway. So I would do something, do it for a couple of years, be good at it, and then take another step. And that was like, ‘Okay, cool’. Then I kind of outgrew that.
I think kind of more generally, the ones that I’m the most proud of are the ones that got me so far out of my comfort zone that I didn’t think I was going to be able to do it or kind of questioned myself a little bit every time I scared myself a little. It ended up being such a good experience in the end that I think those are the ones that I’m really the most proud of.”
Kate is genuinely one of the kindest and most uplifting people I have ever met. She exudes such warm energy and is incredibly thoughtful. I wanted to conclude this piece by saying thank you to Kate for your time and everything you have taught me about product marketing but also about leading a fulfilling life. I appreciate your perspective and honesty and I have gained so much confidence in my abilities following my work term with you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
And now I’ll leave you with Kate’s final piece of advice, which I know I will carry with me for a very long time.
“You don’t need to necessarily know what the destination is going to be because nobody really knows. I think there’s a bit of a fallacy there. Some people know, but not everybody knows… Just talk to people, make yourself known and focus on the next step. Do well where you currently are and then focus on the next step, even if you don’t know what the end goal is really going to be.”