2016 was undoubtedly the tumultuous year of the political earthquake, with unanticipated political shifts and at times extremely clashing divisiveness. However, ever since the evening of November 8, the world has witnessed the birth of a fiery political awakening, with an increasing number of especially young individuals realizing how personal politics really is. To take some time to sincerely reflect upon the past year– both the highlights and lowlights, we invited Michael DeLuca, President of NYU College Democrats and Elena Hatib, President of NYU College Republicans for a joint dialogue.
Name: Elena Hatib
Year: 2018
Major: Political Science and minor in History
Hometown: Irvine, CA
Name: Michael DeLuca
Year: 2017
Major: Political Science and Chinese
Hometown: Morristown, New Jersey
HC NYU: Can you briefly describe the history of your involvement in your organizations?
EH: I got involved during my sophomore year because my roommate took me to an NYU College Republicans meeting, so I tagged along to see what it would be like. That night we made some really good friends afterwards, and the meeting was very interesting, so we decided to continue getting involved. I didn’t really hold a position in the beginning, but because most of the people on the e-board were graduating, I decided to run for Vice President. But essentially, the person who ran for President took a semester off and couldn’t be here physically, so we held re-elections, and I was elected President.
MD: I started getting involved during the fall of 2013, so my freshman year. I was feeling more and more political as I was about to enter college, and I was studying politics as a way to go into law as well, but I still wasn’t too political. It’s funny– I actually went to both the Republicans meeting and the Democrats meetings during the first week of my freshman year. I come from a rather conservative household, so I was open to both sides at the time. I eventually got more involved with Dems, and started to speak up about a few things. The e-board encouraged me to run during my sophomore year, and I was elected Secretary. Last year I was VP, and this year I decided to run for President.
HC NYU: What are some recent events or projects that the NYU Democrats and NYU College Republicans have hosted together?
MD: This semester we’ve had the discussion on the executive order that was moderated by Politics Society. All the political clubs got together and talked about the executive order, muslim ban, and that was an interclub discussion. Every semester we hold a debate, and so this semester we debated right to work laws and health care reform. The Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, and Libertarians were all present. And kind of on a non-partisan, civic engagement level, we coordinated and put on the Rise Up NYC event that was about two weeks ago. We had 12 city agencies, four high level commissioners, and the mayor of NYC come to speak to us about getting involved as young people in local issues that we care about. Lastly, we had political affair too, which is just an end of the year party where we come together to celebrate our similarities, dress up, dance, and eat good food.
HC NYU: After the presidential election, what kind of changes in your respective organizations did you see?
MD: So in the fall we were all about campaigning, and specifically, pure politics. We were phone banking, canvassing, sending groups to Pennsylvania, and just trying to be as involved in the campaign as we could be. We were at Hillary’s headquarters almost every Saturday. And we were doing that because we felt it was important, but also because we thought it was the best way to deploy our resources.
After the election, we totally had to recalibrate, and began focusing more on activism. And we saw that we had a lot of resources for that as well, including contacts, infrastructure, and financial resources to do things like phone bank for special elections, do postcard drives, and starting task forces. In some cases, we totally adapted the shape of our organization to accommodate those things. We added an e-board position for a Task Force Supervisor to maintain that infrastructure and supervise all the different task forces. We’re expanding the e-board, and have also added a Historian position to get a sense of what we’ve accomplished in the past. And so very visibly, we’ve expanded the scope of people that are doing substantive work with our group, and we’ve also changed our focus from pure politics to activism.
EH: Before the election, we were focusing more on local and state elections. We had a lot of volunteers going out to help certain local candidates. Since our club is very diverse when it comes to different opinions and preferences on political candidates, we did have some people who helped the Trump campaign, and those who really didn’t like him. We did have some people who decided to work on the presidential election, but we also had those trying to bring in local politicians on campus to talk about getting involved. And while it is difficult in New York to have Republicans running for certain offices, but there are a few districts that do generally elect Republican candidates, like Staten Island and a few areas in Queens. After the presidential election, we kind of continued what we were doing, trying to bring in different types of speakers, from journalists, to politicians, and scholars. But one thing I have noticed post-election is that our presence on campus has grown immensely and our attendance turnout has grown as well. People are starting to become more interested and are showing up to our meetings.
HC NYU: Many pieces discuss the balance between free speech and political correctness on college campuses. Where do you draw the line, if there is one, between First Amendment rights and offensive speech?
EH: I’m obviously a big free speech advocate, whether it’s bringing in a speaker or protesting. I think that both are okay. Every group has the right to bring in who they want to bring in. There are some groups that I don’t agree with, but they have every right to be here and host whichever speakers they choose to. Likewise, in response, people should be able to hold protests as long as it doesn’t get violent or physical. This is a university attended by tens and thousands of students who come from different backgrounds, and there will inevitably be conflicting views at times among others. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to participate in it, and you’re not forced to be a part of any event. But I think everybody has the right to express their freedom of speech as best as they want to, as long as it doesn’t get violent.
MD: So for me, I think it’s important to recognize a few things. First, we’re at a private university, and so we’re bound by different policies than public universities are. Also, when you ask, “Where is the line?”, you are recognizing that in fact, there is a line. And we draw that line for things like libel, slander, inciting speech. While I am very concerned with free speech on college campuses, and probably more in favor of speech that some people would deem offensive than some of the members of our group, I recognize that there is a line and I think that the administration has been forced to identify where that falls throughout the year in recognizing safety concerns as reasons for shutting down certain events.
What I’m concerned with is I think that all groups have a right to invite almost anyone they want on campus. But something I’ve tried to emphasize this year is that by inviting people, inviting them and giving them a platform, resources, and a captivated, impressionable audience, you are to some extent, endorsing the views and opinions of those guests. You’re helping them spread their opinions, and giving them opportunities to do that. My opinion, and we’re very proud of the guest speakers we’ve brought in at the College Democrats, is that any group that brings in a guest is accepting that that guest is a reflection of their values as an organization. And in a few cases throughout the year, I’ve been concerned about that– not so much about the club’s right to do it, but rather their reasons for doing it.
HC NYU: Building off of this conversation, in February, NYU Republicans invited VICE Media Co-Founder and comedian, Gavin McInnes. However, his presence stirred heated controversy, and 11 individuals ended up getting arrested after protests became violent. Elena, I wanted to give you the time to describe your motives for inviting Gavin McInnes to NYU and what your organization hoped to accomplish.
EH: One of the e-board members invited Gavin, and knew of him very well because he was a fan of his shows. A lot of people were really interested in seeing him as well because his show was very popular. It was supposed to be a meeting in 803 with our regular members, about 30-40 people. That’s what we intended it to be. And just hours before the event, things just riled up and went crazy. Because we have to have open events at this school to be funded, we had to keep it open, which is fine. Again, it was meant to be a regular meeting, but a lot of people who came to demonstrate, they didn’t even know what they were there for. We asked, “Do you know who Gavin McInnes is, or what he does?”, and some of them responded saying, “No, we just heard that there was going to be a scene here.”
It escalated within hours, and I think that the events that occurred at UC Berkeley added fuel to the fire. We’re not just a platform for provocative speakers– we had one, Gavin? A lot of people didn’t understand that it was supposed to be a regular meeting, and it was sad because a lot of our members were physically hurt. I’m sad that it came to that, but the administration really helped in supporting us and creating a safe environment. Going forward we’re going to try and take more effective security measures if there is some kind of threat towards students. Again, I don’t agree with all the speakers we have brought in, but they have the right to speak. This is an academic institution, we should be able to bring in someone to challenge the views we hold.
MD: My response to that is by saying you are inviting them to come and debate, you are saying that some of these views that they choose to spread, are debatable. And to me, that’s shocking. People like Gavin McInnes come in, people who have publicly written about and discussed blatantly misogynistic topics. Sure, they have a right to speak– he could come speak at Washington Square Park, or wherever. But if you make a Facebook event and invite all your friends, saying these are views worthy of debate and we are going to give this person a room, audience, and our time, all of which are limited resources. We had 22 meetings this year, and we chose to fill those spots and invite our members to events that we were proud of. You may have had some values that undergirded those motivations and invitations, but I don’t think you can provide all those resources to those people and then act like you haven’t done anything for them or for the ideas that they support.
EH: Like I said earlier, we’ve never really endorsed a certain position, and members of our club have very diversified opinions. We’re not stuck to one section of the Republican party, we have our Libertarians, center right, more conservative students. We don’t adhere to one specific thing– we have people who voted for Trump as well as those who didn’t vote for Trump. As I mentioned earlier, if you don’t like it, you have the choice to not engage in it. I have every right to be at this school and listen to who I choose to as anyone else does. I almost feel as if there is a stigma on campus that says, “free speech is okay as long as it’s my version of it.” However, I see a double standard when certain students claim that free speech is okay TO THIS POINT, or okay for these people. Yes, we did host Gavin McInnes, but every single one of the other speakers has been an academic, politician, professor, journalist– and people forget about those speakers. We hosted some very well known and respected speakers with varying political beliefs, so people can’t say that this one speaker reflects this organization’s views as a whole. We offer a platform where people can listen and debate, and if you don’t want to come, everyone has the right to make that choice.
HC NYU: In application, CPAC uninvited Milo Yiannopoulos after his statements about sexual relations with young boys and older men emerged. Would NYU Republicans still invite Milo to campus today?
EH: No, when we invited him in the spring, there were many people, not just from NYU, who wanted to come hear him speak. I went to the UCLA meeting and one of our other executive board members also wanted to invite him, and I said sure. I didn’t really know much about him, but obviously if we had seen those kinds of comments and statements about pedophilia months ago, we wouldn’t have invited him. We didn’t know about these comments earlier. Many people look to us and say, “Are you proud of yourself for inviting a pedophile?”, but you have to realize that the news about Milo’s comments came out months after we held our event with him. Now I don’t think we would invite him especially because people started getting violent on campuses because of it, and I think that’s unacceptable. There were fires started at UC Berkeley, putting students at risk and I think that if people are willing to do that for a person coming to give a speech, I don’t think it’s worth it.
MD: He was saying that these relationships between teenage boys and older men were acceptable. And you’re saying that you wouldn’t invite him after that. So what I’m saying is that by saying that, you’re recognizing that there are instances where some views are so deplorable that they don’t deserve a platform and an audience. I’m saying it seems a little contradictory to say views like that are unacceptable, but others that blatantly go against women and minorities and specific groups, do deserve a platform. I don’t see how you reconcile that.
EH: The pedophilia comments ruined Milo’s career in a way, that was the tip of the iceberg. Like I said, we don’t agree or endorse every speaker, but there were a lot of people in the city who really wanted us to host him to speak. And so we responded and listened to the demands of many. He’s a popular speaker–a lot of people hate him, a lot of people are interested by him. He provides an interesting performance; he’s a provocateur. That’s what it is– it’s challenging a lot of these ideas that are so ingrained in college campuses, and whether or not you agree with them, there is room to argue and learn.
HC NYU: Elena, you mentioned earlier that you see a stigma on campus that says, “free speech is okay, as long as it’s MY version of it.” A key problem that exists among individuals with differing political views is the lack of dialogue. What are some ways that NYU students can work to foster respectful and critical conversations instead of calling out each other’s flaws?
EH: I think it starts in the classroom. A lot of my friends and I have been in situations where we’ve been discouraged from sharing our views and opinions if it’s not ‘of the norm.’ There was an instance in class where my professor posed a question, and half of the class ended up taking a conservative stance. The professor blatantly suggested that those who did so, ‘change their answer’. So I think that it starts in the classroom, because there are a lot of professors who teach students what he/she wants to hear. I think that there needs to be some kind of process in the classroom where students can freely debate and are exposed to different kinds of viewpoints. Once they see that in the classrooms and once they are trained to have a healthy dialogue with those with differing views, I think that that will trickle into a domino effect of students having more effective dialogue.
I remember I sat next to a girl in class, and one day she approached me and said, “I’m super liberal, but I really am curious to hear about your views on X issue.” We ended up having a very deep and civilized discussion for about half an hour, and she told me she was shocked that we didn’t talk earlier. But the thing is that, it shouldn’t be shocking. It should be normal for people to have these kinds of discussions. Being open minded and listening to what others have to say is essential and should be normal.
MD: I’m definitely anxious about it as well– the quality of the dialogue in general, not just on campus. I think it’s definitely politically charged, and I think it’s difficult because both parties are now caricatures of themselves, and tend to be very exaggerated. Speaking as a Democrat, it’s hard to dissociate Republicans from Trump, and I think that it would be easier for me if the establishment did a better job of separating itself from Trump. If they want to be taken seriously, and if they don’t want to be seen as extreme far-right, I think it would be easier to engage. Some people say it’s why Macron won the election in France. The establishment right refused to align with the extreme right, and that was very interesting to me because I think it’s very different than what’s happened here.
Personally, I very much benefitted from a recent experience. I debated with Ella Kuzmenko, who is a member of NYU College Republicans. We argued against a law school professor and another student on voter ID laws. I sort of took the opposite stance of what the normal Democrat would take, and I argued that voter ID laws were constitutional. That was a fun exercise for me, and is something I would encourage everyone to do. At one point, Ella sat down and asked, “Did you change your opinion?”, and I said, “No, but I definitely understood why I held the opinion that I’ve always held.” And that came from arguing the other side, and coming from where I come from, which tends to be more conservative, I have been forced to do that for a long time. And for people who haven’t I would again, encourage them to try it and to argue the opposite point of view, really researching. Even though you may eventually not be convinced to change your views, you’ll be more humble and understanding of why you hold the positions you do.
EH: Going off of what Michael said, even if you don’t agree with something, you should always try to be open-minded to see why somebody thinks the way they do, or why they have certain beliefs on certain issues. Again, you don’t have to agree, but it’s always good to try to make that sincere attempt to understand. When you listen to a certain idea, you should never try to force them to change. You’re supposed to give them the information to help them form their individual opinion. People’s opinions and views do happen to change over time, and they should. New information is always coming out. You should be presented information from ALL sides to form your own opinion.
MD: Definitely. Something that worries me in politics is that there is a such a stigma about changing your opinion, at any point in your career. And I find it really troubling, because I think about who I was a couple of years ago, and it’s radically different. Is it okay that I went to a Republicans meeting? It absolutely should be. It’s always informative to remember that Obama wasn’t always in support of gay marriage– neither was Hillary, nor any other mainstream Democrat at the time. And they were probably late, but I don’t think we should ostracize people for coming around late. I think we should welcome them, and that’s how you inspire the future, not by saying, “You’re late, we don’t want you now” but rather saying, “Good, you’re here now.”
HC NYU: What is your response to those who believe that both parties are corrupt and refuse to identify with either? Do you feel it is your responsibility to sway people to your respective party affiliations?
EH: I think that whatever side you are on, there will be corrupt politicians who take unethical actions. And really, that’s just been politics since the Ancient civilizations. I’ve met a lot of students who would rather take a third-party stance on certain issues, but I think that in general there needs to be something done about corrupt politics. I realize that that topic itself is very dense, in New York state especially. I think we are one of the most corrupt states in terms of politics. If you take a look back at history, it’s something that has been happening for thousands of years; it’s not new.
My goal isn’t to change someone’s mind though. I can help people who refuse to identify with either party to see examples of both Democratic and Republican politicians who in fact are not corrupt, and genuinely want to help their constituents. I think that many of these politicians tend to be overshadowed by a lot of the bad things that people in their field do. However, ultimately it’s up to them to take in that information.
MD: Yeah, I agree that there are always going to be a few bad people every now and then, and that’s not new. I’ve always been a big proponent of people getting involved in the systems they’re upset with, and rising in the ranks, changing it to be more what they want it to be. The problem with thought is that there are these systemic issues which create huge barriers to entry and which also taint every branch of the political process. Things like lobbying, which is basically legal corruption, and campaign finance or the amount of money involved in the political process are one of the biggest threats to our democracy. It’s concentrated power in the hands of very few people. And that really disturbs me, because it keeps young people from running, being inspired by politicians, and being engaged in the process which is critical to our future. And so I don’t blame them sometimes for being so discouraged by what they see. But, these things were implemented by people, and people can also get rid of them. I’m worried about it, but I’m also optimistic.
HC NYU: How has politics affected your relationship with other people and your social life?
EH: I have close friends who are in College Republicans with me, but I also have a really good friends who are part of opposing political parties. I try not to distinguish my friendships based on someone’s political affiliation. I think there’s a lot more to a friendship– I try to focus on what I like about the person, or what they like about me.
MD: It’s definitely dangerous to choose friends based on their politics. What a crazy time to be studying politics. It’s very difficult to separate someone’s politics from their personalities. After the election, whenever I traveled anywhere and saw someone who obviously had a very different lifestyle from me, I wanted to ask, “Who’d you vote for? Why?”. So, on one hand there feels like there is a distance between me and those with different political opinions, it’s also made me more interested in people’s lifestyles in a way that I may not have been. I think everyone is becoming aware that there are places in America that are neglected when it comes to the economy or the drug epidemic. And understanding their experiences is critical to dealing with the problems they’re facing and bringing in the kinds of leaders we want into office. And so, on one hand I struggle all the time, because I have members of my family who voted for Trump. I struggle to separate people’s politics from who they are, but at the same time, it makes me more curious about people and interested in their views. It’s a tug of war, for sure.
HC NYU: Reflecting back on this year as student leaders, what is the greatest lesson you have learned?
EH: I think this year especially I’ve learn to be more open-minded and respectable towards people’s opinions and views. Even within our own party, there is a lot of argument and discussion on certain issues, and I think being open-minded yet staying strong to your own values is what I learned— especially on this campus. After this election, I’ve learned more about each type of person and like Michael mentioned earlier, their different kinds of lifestyles. Being more perceptive to people’s thoughts and concerns has been one of my greatest takeaways from this year.
MD: Two things are on my mind. The first is that, I realized how important it is to surround myself with people who are way smarter than I am. When you’re leading anything or really trying to accomplish anything, you need different viewpoints and people you can trust. Often, I had a vision for the club, but had to go to these people who knew more than me to figure out what we could use to do it, who we could work with. I’m inspired by those people. The second is that, no one is really qualified to do the things that they do– and I don’t mean that in a bad way. I mean it in a sense that everyone learns by doing things. This world is run by human beings, and humans make these decisions, and it’s just incredibly humbling to see that our school, city, and entire country is run by people who feel the same emotions and have the same ambitions as us. Being able to spend time with other leaders on campus, I’ve gotten a sense that people just try to do well, but they’re just like you. And you know it’s taken me years to realize that, but it’s huge. Makes everything easier– less scary.
HC NYU: A few fun short answers questions…
Summer Plans?
EH: I’m going home for a bit, then traveling to Bulgaria for a little. When I’m back in New York, I’ll be working at a consulting firm that deals with company property and real estate development!
MD: I’ll be studying in Dalian, China on a State Department Critical Language scholarship, and when I come back to the city in August, I’ll be starting off as a paralegal in the SDNY US Attorney’s Office.
Current Song on Repeat:
EH: Bemba Colora– a Cuban song by Celia Cruz.
MD: I’m The One– DJ Khaled, Chance the Rapper, Lil’ Wayne, Justin Bieber, Quavo
Interesting Hobbies:
EH: Going to Museums, Playing Piano
MD: Art History, Film photography, cooking Italian food
You Like Your Coffee:
EH and MD: Black
MD: How I like my Presidents— strong and black.
If You Could Go Backpacking Anywhere:
EH: South Africa
MD: Iceland
Stay updated on social media!
Michael DeLuca:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mpdeluca
Instagram: mpdeluca
Twitter: mp_deluca
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-deluca-a131b75a
Elena Hatib:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elena.hatib
Instagram: @elenah5
Twitter: @elena_hatib
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elena-hatib-2130bbb1/
NYU Democrats:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nyudemocrats/
Instagram: @nyudems
Twitter: @nyudems
Website: http://www.nyudems.com/
NYU Republicans:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nyucollegerepublicans/
Instagram: @nyucollegerepublicans
Twitter: @NYUCR
Website: Working on creating a new website, stay tuned!